35: Catching Up with Writer, Game Designer, and Publisher Zac Goins

35: Catching Up with Writer, Game Designer, and Publisher Zac Goins

Posted by Nicholas Ribera on

In this conversation, Chain Assembly and Zach discuss various topics related to conventions, marketing strategies, and crowdfunding platforms. They talk about the transition to a new white labeling convention circuit business, compare different gaming conventions, and share their experiences and expectations at Origins. They also discuss marketing strategies for conventions, networking tips, and the benefits of promoting creators at events. The conversation touches on the ZineQuest projects and the challenges of marketing different types of projects. They also explore the use of live streaming platforms for marketing and the differences between crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter and GameFound.

You can listen to the episode here (or wherever you listen to podcasts) or read the transcript below:

A Conversation with Zac Goins:

Chain Assembly (00:01.706)

All right, so I've got Zach back on the podcast and Zach and I were just going to catch up a bit in preparation of Origins that I'm super excited to be attending. So we figured might as well turn it into a conversation. So I got like a couple of list of things to chat about. I'm sure Zach has a few on his own too. So first off, how's it been, Zach?

Chain Assembly (00:30.698)

So I know last time we were chatting a bit about the transition to the new kind of white labeling convention circuit business thing. So how has that been going?

Chain Assembly (01:16.682)

That's very cool. So these trade shows, is it something that Wogdy World of Game Design is always at in addition to this new? So I forgot the name of it. The white -lamp. Thank you. So is it usually Tabletop Fanatics and World of Game Design, or is it just the 20 goal is just for Tabletop Fanatics?

Chain Assembly (01:44.65)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (02:26.122)

Okay. Well, so the only convention or gaming convention I've ever been to is Origins. So how would you say that one compares to the ones that you usually do?

Chain Assembly (05:18.954)

So if you're thinking of it as like, if you're just like counting sales, would an Origins result in more sales than a New York Comic Con or no?

Chain Assembly (06:51.498)


Chain Assembly (07:18.474)

So like, where I am, I know there's Dice Tower Con, which I don't think they've had for a few years, and that's in Orlando, I want to say, but let me look that one up again. Dice Tower Con. And see if they're doing that thing again. Dice Tower East. Oh, it's happening in July.

Maybe I should sign up for this one.

Chain Assembly (07:51.048)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (08:05.202)


Chain Assembly (08:19.978)

I've only got one board game at this point, but I'm hoping to have my next one prototypable in time for Origins. So maybe in the unpub room or something. But I mean, so the events for Origins haven't come out yet. So it's like, I really have no idea how to plan my time there. So, um.

Chain Assembly (08:58.858)

Well, so like, I mean, this is all easy for you because you've been doing this so much. So maybe easy is not the right word, but it's all experiences for you. Like you generally know what to expect, what to prepare for, what kind of lists you need to check off. And so like the idea of introducing another convention into my lineup is scary.

But that being said, it's not like I'm going to Origins this year as a vendor. So the first time I did it, it was an attendee. I met you. I did tons of events. I participated in tons of events. And I had a wonderful time. The second time, I didn't participate in any events. I just hosted that one that I met you at. And I was a vendor. And as a vendor, you don't really have any free time.

So this time I'm thinking to be more like the first one. I want to do more role playing games and less board games. And part of that is because if I'm like, oh my God, I need to buy this. It's going to be a lot cheaper and it's going to take up a lot less room than a board game would. Like the last one I bought, I bought this chip theory game called Burn Cycles, like 140 bucks. I bought it because everybody was like flipping their shit over this game. I still haven't made it past the tutorial.

Did you try it?

Chain Assembly (10:43.37)

Yeah. It's like thematically, it's kind of like a little bit like Metal Gear Solid. Like you're sneaking around these robots that are like on preset paths. You have to try and avoid them. But then you're also kind of like programming your movement to try and like predict where they're going to be at a certain point. And it's incredibly complex just from that tutorial. And I just I haven't forced myself to do it.

Part of the problem is I really like the games from Forgotten Realms. Sorry, not Forgotten Realms.

Chain Assembly (11:22.122)

What is this?

Chain Assembly (11:27.37)

Whatever, the Polish, Awaken Realms, there you go, Awaken Realms. And a lot of their games are like super long campaigns. So my wife and I have been playing ISS Vanguard for like 40 sessions now and we're not done with the campaign. So it becomes really hard to introduce a new game to the mix because like we're so close to finishing this one. But.

Chain Assembly (11:56.042)

Right, yeah.

Chain Assembly (12:14.41)

What's funny too is I got into board games because I didn't have time for RPGs. And now board games have become like RPGs where you have to do the next part of the adventure. And I'm missing the freedom of being done after two hours.

Chain Assembly (13:13.738)

So, like some of the games that we've been playing lately, when I say we, it's my wife and I mostly just playing like two player games. We recently played one that I got from Kickstarter, it arrived like two months ago called Steam Up. It's about collecting dim sum. It's really fun. It's very simple. You've got like little plastic steamer baskets stacked up. The game has a lazy Susan in the middle of it. And part of it is like,

rotating dim sum away from your partner so that they can't get their like the set that they're trying to collect and then rotating it towards you. It's very simple, but it's really fun. It's got a little squishy like bow buns and stuff and it's quite delightful.

Chain Assembly (14:18.378)


Chain Assembly (14:23.498)

Yeah, I worry I'm gonna show up with too many games when I come back from Origin. So anyway, so I'm just super excited about Origin, so tell me about some of the events you'll be hosting down there.

Chain Assembly (14:42.09)


Chain Assembly (16:37.642)

Hmm. That sounds like a lot. Are these events that you'd only do at origin size events and above? Or like the smaller local ones usually not have a lot of panels.

Chain Assembly (17:49.642)

So one thing that I've been wondering is like, since I'm not going to Origins as a vendor, as Chain Assembly, is there anything that like I should be doing networking wise that I'm not, that I don't know about? I guess that's a dumb question, but like, I don't know.

Chain Assembly (20:57.512)


Chain Assembly (21:34.41)

So one thing I hadn't even thought of that you just made me think about is like, should I be bringing copies of Ready Play Games or Pilgrimage of the Penitent and try and like reach out to booths that represent game stores and see if like they'd want a sample?

Chain Assembly (23:39.914)

So what -

So, okay, maybe like, ready play games, for example, they're small. Should I be giving out like free copies to people and be like, hey, here's this, you know, here's two of this series. If you're interested, contact me and we'll do a wholesale order or.

Chain Assembly (25:52.17)

So maybe it would make sense then rather than bringing like a bunch of copies of stuff to give away for free, just bring stuff to display and carry them on me. So like for me, that would just be the couple of Ready Play Games and a pilgrimage dependent book. And then just have like, if you're really interested, here's, I already made a whole bunch of flyers that describe each of the Ready Play Games and say how to contact me for wholesale orders. So I'll bring that. And then I'll just have a copy of pilgrimage dependent.

Chain Assembly (27:05.258)

Yeah. Well, one of the biggest differences in this regard is that you're already going there with a whole bunch of merchandise. And I'm going there with just a loosely packed suitcase with the expectation I'm going to fill it with shit I'm bringing back. So I really need to kind of figure out what to pack and what's not worth packing.

Chain Assembly (27:32.042)

Oh, yeah.

Chain Assembly (27:41.738)

Oh shit, yeah. I didn't even think of that.

Chain Assembly (27:49.706)

Well, speaking of that, speaking of that, is there any benefit or would you want me to do like a signing of any of the stuff that I have there? I don't know if that could be an event or something.

Chain Assembly (28:20.426)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (28:58.794)

So that's kind of one of the topics that came up with John Baltisberger when I had him on the podcast was like, I've also noticed that too, when my wife is helping me at art events, where like, if I say, Hi, I'm Nick, I'm the artist, it kind of like brings me this sounds shitty, brings me down to their level. But if it's my wife saying, oh, this is my husband, he's the artist that kind of puts me elevated. It's weird, but it's it's just a psychological thing.

Chain Assembly (29:45.706)


Chain Assembly (29:51.882)


Chain Assembly (30:07.306)

Well speaking of which, do you know if there's any other, so other than you and I, are there any other creators that you know are gonna be at Origins?

that you represent.

Chain Assembly (30:34.09)


Chain Assembly (31:03.646)


Chain Assembly (31:09.322)

So if you did try to publicize a schedule of sign of creators at your booth ready to sign stuff, would Origins be mad at you for not making an official event? And do you think there'd be benefit to that? Just having some type of sign on an acrylic little standee that says, these people will be here from this time to this time to get your shit.

Chain Assembly (32:42.09)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (32:52.618)

So that being said, you're talking about printed stuff. Do you have like a brochure of like all the stuff you carry? Because I know brochures were like all over the place at Origins.

Chain Assembly (33:52.138)

Well, you know, like with board games, it's kind of a tradition, I guess, that you buy a game from a publisher and inside it is going to be a little pamphlet of like all the games that are upcoming and stuff they have available.

Chain Assembly (34:17.482)


Chain Assembly (34:24.65)

Hmm, that's a good idea.

Chain Assembly (34:37.482)

So there's this one role -playing game I got from Kickstarter that was obviously, I mean, honestly kind of shitty. I don't know if you saw this one, the Hieronymus one based on the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch. So I think for this, I'm going to turn off my fancy background if it lets me switch. Oh, I can't switch cameras during a recording. All right.

Just because the fancy background makes it hard to see shit. But what's cool about it is like the the Hieronymus Bosch paintings are... Let me find one. Presented as maps that you can travel through. OK, so yeah, there you go. I can kind of see it, I guess. So it's like they put a grid over it and then like different location stuff.

And one other thing that's kind of cool about it is, I don't know where these are, but the character sheets, they're very simple, but they are formatted as bookmarks. So it's just a long narrow thing and it's got like all the things you fill it out yourself and your character sheet's a bookmark, which is great if you have a copy of the game as a book, you just slip your little sheet in there. But this was terribly printed, it like bows like crazy. And...

Chain Assembly (36:00.074)

I think it's, I don't, it was just a bad idea to make it long and narrow, I think. But, but anyways, I really liked the idea of bookmarks being a character sheet. I thought that was probably the coolest thing to come out of that role playing game. And like that could be, yeah.

Chain Assembly (36:19.274)


Chain Assembly (36:35.018)

Oh, nice.

Chain Assembly (37:05.226)


Chain Assembly (37:22.858)

So one thing I do, I decided I'm gonna do at Origins is like for this podcast, I'm gonna be using my camera, my mirrorless Micro Four Thirds camera. I got a nice really flat 18 millimeter lens on it. And I've got wireless lapel mics that attach to the camera. So I'm gonna be going to different booths, ask them to, just for my own notes, record their business card, ask them to say what booth they're in or what space they're in.

describe their business and say what they think is going to sell out the most quickly. And I'll do that for like 10 or 11 or 12 or so vendors and put that all together on TikTok, on YouTube and as a podcast. And if I can get that all done on the first day, I think I'd probably get a ton of hits. Because I know when I was at Origins, I was Googling like, what should I look for at Origins? And so I think that could be good for the podcast as well as give me some views and it'll be nice content too.

Chain Assembly (38:44.522)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (38:52.874)

Yeah, I'm nervous about it, but we'll see how it goes. And if I find someone cool who wants to just hang out for 30 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever, I'll have my laptop and I'll again, I'm going to have those wireless mics, which I can attach USB -C to bring to the computer. So those will be fun. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I didn't do anything last year because my wife was changing professions and trying to save money. But like, I feel like.

I feel like a chain assembly kind of staggered a bit or was a bit stagnant last year because the crowdfunding campaign that I worked so hard towards and put on BackerKit didn't fund. So it's weird to like see that I didn't have any income from crowdfunding in like four or five months, which is totally unnatural for me.

Chain Assembly (39:56.682)

Yeah, yeah. So, um, so this kind of all winds back to, um, two people I've had on the podcast. First is, uh, um, Ellie Melissa Mascaro. She is a person who I met through someone who went to my booth at a metaphysical event and they loved my tarot stuff. And they're like, Oh, you got to meet my friend Ellie. She's a somatic sexual healer and she's a massage therapist and life coach.

So I met with her and she had this really cool idea for something that's like a tarot deck, but it's not just one person. It's like activities for a group of people. And it's based on this philosophy she's been developing of how women's cycles mirror the seasons and they transition from archetype to archetype throughout this seasonal change. And I really loved her idea. And I'm like, hey, I know how to like...

make things like this into physical products, let's get this done. So we worked on it together, very proud of what we put together. And it was around this time I was also doing the podcast and I met with Seven who had the highest funded Tarot project in Kickstarter history. So I learned a lot from them, but Seven at this point was transitioning over to using BackerKit for crowdfunding. So Seven connected me with the marketing team on BackerKit and

I had never used a marketing team other than you guys, which is not, I don't think you ran Facebook ads for me or anything, did you? It mostly just the email list. Yeah.

Chain Assembly (41:41.322)

Right, right, right, yeah.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I was looking forward to it. The people I spoke to were great. I had like three people on our team. They took a look at our project. I did all the graphics for them. They created A and B testing. They wrote all this copy, all these great headlines for everything. They gave us this like web interface that tracked the success of each individual image, each individual headline and each individual.

copy, a bit of copy for the ads that they were running. And we decided to do this on BackerKit because if they do marketing for Kickstarter projects, they take 15 % of each pledge that came from one of their ads, which seemed totally reasonable to me because it's like all the people we're bringing in, they're not taking any of that money. It's just the ones from ads that they've made.

And then if it's on BackerKit though, then it's 10 % of each that they take of each pledge. And so I was thinking, okay, between that discount and the fact that there's not a lot of projects on BackerKit's new crowdfunding platform, we would be standing out. We're like, oh, let's do that. Totally no brainer. We had our funding goal set at $7 ,000 and we only made it to about five. And so we'll...

One thing that was helpful too is it was very easy to communicate with these people. They're like, okay, we're going to spend this much money in order to lead, to generate leads, to get more people clicking on the pre -launch page. So we probably put like $500 into that or so, didn't get a lot of leads. We still owe them money because that's how much money was paid for Kickstarter. I mean, paid on Facebook ads, but they don't charge us anything on top of the money that was actually spent on ads.

Chain Assembly (43:39.466)

So like screws them over, because they did all that work for nothing, but at least we didn't lose out on money.

Yeah, sure.

Chain Assembly (43:52.298)


Chain Assembly (44:03.85)

Let me stop you right there. They do not promote you to the BackerKit audience. That's one thing that really confused me because I'm like, oh, all these people are going to BackerKit for Kickstarter projects and they'll just go in there for the fulfillment. And so I'm like, then they'll just come across our project, which happens to be on that. And I mentioned that to them, like, oh, aren't how can people aren't finding us from that? And they're like, oh, we don't market crowdfunding projects to people who come to BackerKit for the fulfillment.

Chain Assembly (44:41.578)

Yes, it's all Facebook ads.

Chain Assembly (45:02.122)

Yeah, right.

Chain Assembly (45:21.706)

Yes, yes, we didn't pay that money until after the whole thing ended. And that was all based on how much money was spent on ads. And we'd be able to see this information in real time. Like, OK, we're starting off at $30 a day. We're going to see what that looks like and adjust up or down to meet the ROAS, which was a term that we all learned during these conversations. So they were, yeah, sorry. They were incredibly open and public about the whole thing.

And it was all just very disappointing from the beginning that the message of this project was very hard to get through in a static ad. And I think that's really just an issue with the project itself, not anything they did wrong. They were wonderful to work with. They were incredibly open to our ideas. They suggested some fantastic ideas that we didn't know about. But in the end, the reason why it didn't work was...

Our project was a little too big. We were now relaunching it on Kickstarter. We got our actual manufacturing costs for, before it was based on 500 units. Now we're doing it based on 250 units. And we took some things out of the core set. So it's really just a book, the mat and the cards in a box. So we got our costs down to 3000. Our Kickstarter campaign is now requesting 2000 to be funded.

And I have a lot more confidence that in Kickstarter, even though you're competing with way more things, you have an infinite amount more people browsing projects. Nobody's browsing projects on BackerKit.

Chain Assembly (47:27.786)

most of them were people from our list. So yeah, so there there was

I would say maybe 75 % from our list. But like, again, nothing to like, BackerKit's marketing team has been very successful for lots of people, but marketing really requires that the project can be explained in a single message that people want to click on. And the concept of this project is a little bit deeper than just one message. And I still have faith in the project because like,

My first board game, Satisfye, is... It didn't do well on Kickstarter, but it has sold very well at markets because I'm able to explain it to someone. And that's, you know... So like, that's what... I'm fine doing that with the lifetime of the project of this new thing that we're getting manufactured, but it's just... It's not really a clickbaity item.

Chain Assembly (48:53.514)

Yes, absolutely.

Chain Assembly (48:58.922)

Well, one thing about the responsiveness is that their whole business is based on Pacific time. So that's kind of annoying. Yeah. Yeah. And I start my day at seven. So yeah.

Chain Assembly (49:33.194)

Oh yeah, yeah. Launch is wonderful. I'm still using Launch. It's great.

Chain Assembly (50:25.674)

Right. Well, they didn't say that they would refuse to do that. I just said, oh, how come you guys don't do this? And they said, I don't know. That's a good question. We're going to look into that. And then it just seemed like a no brainer, because, like, again, like you said, millions of people are going to that platform every day because their Kickstarter project ended and now they need to spend some more money on shipping. It just seems like it would make so much sense to be like, hey, check out these other projects currently on crowdfunding by BaggerKit.

Chain Assembly (51:13.93)

right right

Chain Assembly (52:47.914)

Well, I'm guessing...

Chain Assembly (52:53.514)

My guess is there's probably some legal reasons why, like, they're not allowed to market to someone else's email list that's stored on their servers. So, like, in that regard, it kind of makes sense. And then...

Chain Assembly (53:15.53)

Yeah, yeah. And so, but BackerKit also as a crowdfunding platform had some really cool tools. So like they have this thing that you can institute called a launch party, which is basically live streaming. So you can live stream before your project launches and everyone's like all on the same page while you hit that launch button. Great if you want to strum up some things. Nobody came to our launch party. And then there's also you can have.

forums in there, you can have diaries, journals, a whole bunch of different like, it's almost like a Patreon that happens alongside your project, which was pretty cool. And you can choose to make some things public or not public. But after I did that, and I started like building my next thing on Kickstarter, I was excited to see that Kickstarter finally added the sections to a project story. So that was huge.

Chain Assembly (54:14.984)


Chain Assembly (54:25.77)


Chain Assembly (54:41.674)


Chain Assembly (54:50.25)


Chain Assembly (55:14.826)

Well, let's move into ZineQuest. Tell me about the projects you're representing that are coming out for ZineQuest. And that's all of February, is it?

Chain Assembly (55:30.762)


Chain Assembly (55:35.336)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (57:38.792)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (01:01:09.93)


Chain Assembly (01:04:12.49)

There are so many cool things happening on zinequest. I'm looking at the list now and a lot of these banner images. So when I have an idea for a project, first thing I do is make a banner image. And I'm like, OK, this will be my thematic thing as I build other stuff from it. And so many of these are just gorgeous pieces of art and so inspiring.

and yeah.

Chain Assembly (01:04:44.586)

Yeah, there's some really cool stuff in here. And like so comparing zine quest, from my experience to say, witch starter, which is like when Kickstarter tries to promote the like tarot and metaphysical stuff. The items that people are usually pledging for during witch starter are a lot more expensive than the items that people are using pledging for during zine quest. So it is easier to hit your funding goal in zine quest because it's usually lower.

while in Witchstarter, you're looking to get a couple thousand dollars for a tarot deck if you did the art yourself. If you didn't do the art yourself, you're looking for $15 ,000. So I did a tarot project during Witchstarter, and I feel like if I hadn't done it during that month, I would have made more money. But I didn't get that same feeling during Zine Quest, because Zine Quest, people are looking to get tons of cheap little books. So if you have a small idea, a small project, it's really a great way to try and...

to get that thing made. Because there's projects that, I mean, if you're just printing an eight -page zine, maybe you only need $150. So it's really fun seeing these ideas in here.

Chain Assembly (01:06:52.714)

Like I'm seeing one here that the art style is done like IKEA instruction manuals. Called Fangl Schellha. And then Thrifty Trades of Fae is a beautiful cover. It's about thrift shopping with fairies. There's the Be Kind rewind. I'm going to hit the button on that one. Yeah.

Chain Assembly (01:07:44.202)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (01:08:02.122)


Chain Assembly (01:08:37.034)

Mm -hmm.

Chain Assembly (01:08:47.466)

Cool. Oh, I just remembered something I didn't tell you too. So with my new Kickstarter project that I've got, I moved Women's Wheel over to Kickstarter. So I've got that launching February 5th, actually next Monday. And then my horror terror deck thing is starting February 19th. So I reached out to Backer Kit Marketing to see if they could help me with the Gialo Terror Deck.

And they said that they've shifted and now they'll only help with marketing on a project that is expected to make over $100 ,000 and already has at least 10 ,000 people on the email list. So that's that was a surprise. And so I said, well, what if I moved the project to backer kit? And they said, well, then we'll have lower requirements. So I might still try backer kit for possibly like a small zine or something as like a test to see how it goes over there.

But I mean, I don't know why they would want to market a small zine on Bacrobat.

Chain Assembly (01:09:58.698)

Right, yeah.

Chain Assembly (01:11:05.674)

Yeah, so it's like, I feel like, so you've had a few projects that have broken a million dollars, right?

Okay, yeah. And did those use marketing or was that all organic?

Chain Assembly (01:12:52.49)


Chain Assembly (01:13:19.594)

Hmm interesting

Chain Assembly (01:13:50.344)


Chain Assembly (01:14:10.73)

I don't know why I didn't think of it that way when it came to the approach to using BackerKit, but...

Chain Assembly (01:15:39.594)

So I think when I do my next board game that I'm working on with my wife, Propagation Station, I might do that on GameFound. Just for comparison's sake, because it is a board game, it would be safe there. But yeah. But I feel like GameFound is really for people who are gamers, while Kickstarter is for people who are gamers, as well as people who are not gamers.

And because it's about propagating houseplants, there's kind of like two markets and half of that market would be gone if I went to Game Found.

Chain Assembly (01:16:50.922)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah, they might ask me how to prove, ask me to prove how I'd make 30. Cause I haven't done, yeah, but whatever. Yeah.

Chain Assembly (01:17:45.034)

So, well, I mean, lots of good stuff for me to think about here, but I have, I know we've already been going for like an hour and 17. I do have one last thing I wanted to ask you and that is, so I recently did a live episode of this podcast, live streaming here and I had it connected to my YouTube and my Facebook and huge failure. My computer could not handle the live streaming and I have a very nice, very expensive computer.

But you livestream all the time. How do you do it?

Chain Assembly (01:20:40.554)

So for me, I think the biggest issue was just this platform that I'm using, Riverside FM. I'm starting to learn the features that it was designed for versus the features they threw in because they had to throw it in. And I think live streaming is part of that. One thing that's great about this platform is when this episode's done,

the AI will automatically adjust all of our voice levels. It'll automatically generate TikTok clips with subtitles put on them with graphics. It'll automatically generate an entire YouTube video for me. And it'll automatically generate all the transcription. So I have to spend maybe no more than 30 minutes to an hour editing it all and uploading everything and scheduling it. Which is lovely.

Chain Assembly (01:22:29.512)


Chain Assembly (01:22:51.794)

Streamlabs is software that runs off the computer, right? Okay, so yeah.

Chain Assembly (01:23:14.89)


Chain Assembly (01:24:02.218)

I'll look into that, but I'm thinking if I'm using Riverside just for audio, then I won't be able to generate those TikTok clips and the YouTube thing. But I guess YouTube is not as important if I'm live streaming to that.

Chain Assembly (01:24:32.586)


Chain Assembly (01:24:58.73)

Thanks. Well, in that regard, you've given me a lot of stuff to research. People who want to fuck with your shit. There's Wogdy, W -O -G -D dot com, World of Game Design, W -O -G -D dot com. Again, you're going to be at Origins as well as many other events. You're also on the Wandering Monster podcast. Shit, sorry, sorry. Yeah. Geeks can't, sorry. Yeah.

Chain Assembly (01:25:51.85)

So does the wogd .com or store .wogd .com, does that list any of your zinequest projects that you're working on?

Chain Assembly (01:26:04.49)

Yeah, it probably should.

Chain Assembly (01:26:23.05)

Well, I definitely want to hang out with you and the Wogty guys at Origins. So not just the panel. I don't know, maybe we'll grab a beer or something. So.

Chain Assembly (01:26:36.586)

Yeah, yeah, I got a I don't know anyone who's gonna be there other than you and maybe I'll run into one or two people but It'll be fun

Thanks again so much. I mean, I know we went for an hour and a half and we could go for five. So thanks, Zach.


Chain Assembly: Art for profit sake is recorded through Riverside FM, distributed through Spotify for podcasters, and edited on Adobe Audition. The music is provided by Old Romans. If you learned anything useful or found this podcast helpful, please rate and review us five stars. If you want to learn more about me or my art, head over to ChainAssembly.com.

← Older Post Newer Post →

Leave a comment

Art for Profit's Sake Podcast

48: Offloading Pain Points with Producer and Game Designer Stephen Kraus

48: Offloading Pain Points with Producer and Game Designer Stephen Kraus

In this conversation, Nick and Stephen discuss Stephen's board game publishing company, We Ride Game, and his video production business, Anthem Video. They talk about...

Read more
47: Origins Game Fair

47: Origins Game Fair

Nick Ribera shares his experience at Origins Game Fair, a role-playing board game convention in Columbus, Ohio. He discusses his participation in various events, including...

Read more